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Archive:New Space Search 2012

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We're looking for a new space to move in once we've made the switch to a charity and got some savings in the bank.  We won't be in such a rush to move as [[New Space Search 2010|last time]].
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We're looking for a new space to move in once we've got some savings in the bank.  We won't be in such a rush to move as [[Archive:New Space 2010|last time]].
  
 
The right space could allow us to run things such as a permanent licensed bar, which could be a boon to the community and also increase our revenue.
 
The right space could allow us to run things such as a permanent licensed bar, which could be a boon to the community and also increase our revenue.
 +
 +
Self-referential thread of interest; [http://groups.google.com/group/london-hack-space/browse_thread/thread/53861411221690a1/a099470fd633f6b9# New space?]
  
 
= Requirements =
 
= Requirements =
 +
With a continued rate of growth we will hopefully see an increase in recurring revenue from the current level of £4,800/month to around £6,000/month.
  
=== Cost ===
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Ideally we should be looking for somewhere which is less shiny than our current location, so we can make our own mark on the space without having to undo a lot of work when we leave. Think factories and warehouses more than offices.
As a charity we will become eligible for both an 80% mandatory rates discount from the council, and Gift Aid. Combined with a continued rate of growth we will hopefully see an increase in recurring revenue from the current level of £4,800/month to around £6,000/month.
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 +
We'll probably want to keep approximately the same split of areas as our current space, without reducing any of them in size.
  
 
== High level requirements ==
 
== High level requirements ==
* At least 3000 sq ft (280 sq m)
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* At least 5000 sq ft (460 sq m) - our current place is 2600 sq ft.
* In Zone 1 or 2
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* In Zone 1 or 2. No further than 2 miles from our current location (because it could cause a disruptive change in our membership when we want it least).
 
* B1 or B2 use class
 
* B1 or B2 use class
* Price less than £70,000/year (inc. service charge & VAT)
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* Price less than £6000/month (£75,000/year) inc. service charge & VAT - i.e. less than £15.00/sq ft.
* No more than 0.5 miles to a tube station
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* No more than 0.5 miles to a tube/overground station
 +
* Ground floor OR goods lift
 +
* Separate entrance. Landlord has to be comfortable with hundreds of people having access.
 +
* Noise allowed. We make a lot of noise, and a residential area isn't going to cut it.
 +
* Has some natural light
  
 
== Possible requirements (wishlist) ==
 
== Possible requirements (wishlist) ==
 
We won't be able to satisfy all of these, but the more the better.
 
We won't be able to satisfy all of these, but the more the better.
  
* Enough floor space for separate storage (at least 50% larger than current member storage area)
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* A building to ourselves, we'd rather not be renting a unit.
* Possibility of creating separate metal work & wood workshops with attached materials room (whether shared or individual)
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* Roof access
* Kitchen space
 
* At least as much floor space if not more to be used for quiet room & desk space
 
* toilets (inc disabled access)
 
* ideally some sort of shower room (or room that can be made thus)
 
* several smaller rooms that can be made custom use eg fab room for 3D printers & laser cutter, bio hacking room, soldering room. All though these could be cubicles/ partitions to a larger space.
 
 
* somewhere secure for bikes
 
* somewhere secure for bikes
 
* usable outside area; ideally large enough for firing trebuchet/rockets/pigs.
 
* usable outside area; ideally large enough for firing trebuchet/rockets/pigs.
 
* convenient parking for motorbikes, cars, etc
 
* convenient parking for motorbikes, cars, etc
* Some kind of ''separate dedicated'' area for lectures, presentations and non-engineering workshops.
 
  
 
== Non-functional requirements ==
 
== Non-functional requirements ==
 
* Friendly landlord
 
* Friendly landlord
* Easy access, preferably ground floor
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* Easy access
 
* Fantastic views
 
* Fantastic views
  
 
== Scoring ==
 
== Scoring ==
  
= Agents =
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==[http://www.estateoffice.com/property/Hackney-Road/461 447-453 Hackney Road]==
  
* Stirling Ackroyd
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* main page: [[447 Hackney Road]]
** I visited them yesterday and obtained a few properties, they don't seem to have anything better on their website. [[User:Robert|Robert]] 11:50, 13 July 2011 (UTC)
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* 7,114 sq ft (slightly less according to our own measurements: ground floor 3125 sq ft, basement 3390 sq ft.)
 +
* ceiling heights: 12.5' and 8.5' (3.8m ground floor, 2.6m basement)
 +
* £14.75 per sq foot = £105,000 per annum
 +
* £8750 + rates at £2250 = £11,000/month [https://groups.google.com/d/msg/london-hack-space/ch8AbfNJ1UA/Wv22W3zqQV8J]
 +
* Not far from the current space. (Postcode E2 9DY)
 +
* [https://www.dropbox.com/sh/pkplwxy9vgz90ih/SBdGkmchjS Pics from Russ/Jonty's first visit]
 +
* [http://www.flickr.com/photos/russss/sets/72157632122729809/ second visit]
 +
* [http://youtu.be/MK3I63AvNrE Video - 16/01/2013]
  
= Long list =
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= Advanced planning =
  
== [[Media:341-345 Old Street.pdf|341-345 Old Street, EC1V 9LL]] [http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=345+Old+Street&hl=en&sll=51.527214,-0.079955&sspn=0.011294,0.022681&dirflg=w&z=16] (1,945 - 5,871 sqft., £20/sqft., £78,520 pa.) ==
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Moved to: [[Hackspace Move]].
  
These appear to be three completely bare units on Old Street of approximately 1,950 sqft. each.
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= Frequently Asked Questions =
  
The suitability of this in terms of noise is unclear, and the letting document indicates a reception so access requirements would need to be confirmed.
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== Do we really need to expand? ==
  
Transport:
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It's a judgment call, but there are a few arguments for further expansion.
* Old Street (0.3 miles)
 
* Shoreditch High Street (0.3 miles)
 
* Hoxton (0.4 miles)
 
  
== [[Media:181 Cannon Street Road.pdf|181 Cannon Street Road, E1 2LX]] [http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=181+Cannon+Street+Road&hl=en&ll=51.513483,-0.06182&spn=0.011297,0.022681&sll=51.515006,-0.06521&sspn=0.011297,0.022681&dirflg=w&z=16] (3,167 sqft., £16/sqft., £50,672 pa.) ==
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First of all it needs to be pointed out that every time we moved or expanded the space, our community grew along with it and quickly filled the available space. (We last expanded in January 2011 to double our space, and within a year already filled that space.)
  
Although they are marketed as "media styled office space" they appear to be two mostly empty floors, situated above a shop but with separate access.
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There are a number of problems with our current space:
 +
* We can't hold workshops with more than 15 people.
 +
* We're running out of storage space (e.g. for member boxes), and can't set up any new infrastructure that requires a lot of space (such as more workbenches in the workshop.) We can't accommodate project work that requires a lot of space.
 +
* At peak times (evenings) the workshop frequently gets busy enough that people need to share workbenches. It gets harder to work with bulky materials without getting into someone's way.
 +
* We can't even promote the Hackspace in a big way; for the last year we've declined interview requests because we currently cannot accommodate a potential flood of new members.
  
Price does not include service charge.
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There's an argument to make that more space would also address some of our social problems:
 +
* We're now at a community size where not everyone knows everyone else any more, and certain social mechanisms stop working; for example some people may feel that tools get abused, or workspace does not get cleaned up, and it's not clear who was the culprit. (See [[User:Martind/Broken | Broken]].)
 +
* One way of coping with such a large community is to start segmenting it into subgroups, something we're already doing (biohackers, music hackspace, graphics hackspace, ...)
 +
* In a perfect world we would be able to give each larger subgroup their own space (for example their own room), and the ability to run it as they see fit (to set up their own rules for tool access, maintenance, etc); to re-introduce a sense of ownership.
 +
* Our current space in Cremer St does not accommodate such a subdivision. A larger space would help.
  
Transport:
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== How will we finance a move? ==
* Shadwell (0.3 miles)
 
* Whitechapel (0.5 miles)
 
* Aldgate East (0.5 miles)
 
  
== [[Media:101 Commercial Road.pdf|101 Commercial Road, E1 1RD]] [http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=101+Commercial+road&hl=en&ll=51.514912,-0.063901&spn=0.011297,0.022681&sll=51.519032,-0.074759&sspn=0.011296,0.022681&dirflg=w&z=16] (3,500 sqft., £15.20/sqft., £53,200 pa.) ==
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* We will publish a detailed moving budget once we're close to committing to a new space. (Todo: insert Russ' budget spreadsheet as an example.)
 +
* We have a bit of money in the bank for circumstances like this, and we expect that a new space will increase membership (this happened every time we moved/expanded)
 +
* We will under no circumstances raise the £5 minimum donation threshold for members.
 +
* Instead we will likely ask existing members to increase their monthly donation, e.g. "double it if you can." (Russ made a [https://dl.dropbox.com/u/1909920/plot.png scatterplot of current donations], ordered by member ID.)
 +
* Additionally we may invite one-off donations from members and generous donors, seek a loan (external or from members), etc
  
Looks to be kitted out as an office, but the description indicates e.g. partitions could be removed.  Access arrangements are not obvious.
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== Will a new location add to my travel time? ==
  
Noise could be an issue.
+
It is unlikely that we will ever find another space as close to a train station as [[Laboratory 24]], with Hoxton station around the corner. It is possible that any new location will involve additional travel time by foot to get to the closest station. We will try our best...
 
 
Transport:
 
* Aldgate East (0.4 miles)
 
* Shadwell (0.5 miles)
 
* Whitechapel (0.5 miles)
 
* Aldgate (0.5 miles)
 
 
 
== [http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-to-rent/property-33125573.html/svr/3101 Cheshire Street, E2] (6,865 sqft., £52,000 pa.) ==
 
 
 
Massive warehouse, fridge, and office space.  Warehouse space could be partitioned to improve heating.
 
 
 
Transport:
 
* Shorditch  (0.2 miles)
 
* Bethnal Green (0.3 miles)
 
* Whitechapel (0.4 miles)
 
 
 
= Advanced planning =
 
== Move ==
 
Moving will be an enormous task, and will take at least an entire weekend (and probably a week's worth of time in preparation).
 
  
== Build-out of new space ==
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We don't know how many people actually use the East London Line to come to the space, but it seems likely that most visitors use a variety of transport means to get to the space (e.g. multiple trains or bus lines.) Also note that East London (particularly the Hackney/Tower Hamlets area) generally has great bus connections to many parts of the city. In combination this means you may have to change your route, but total travel time may not change by much.
There's no guarantee that any location we find will have all the amenities we need, so it's likely we'll have to budget for things such as fitting the kitchen, installing partitions, installing new flooring. Fortunately we should have a decent level of cash on hand.
 
  
== Leaving Cremer Street ==
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[[Category:Outdated Pages]]
We need to return the two units to how they were when we arrived, which will require quite a bit of work.
+
[[Category:Prior Hackspaces‏‎]]
* Kitchen conversion can probably stay as long as it's completed
 
* Wall needs replacement breeze blocks (£???) + a day's building + painting
 
* Wet room needs reinstating as toilet. No costs afaik
 

Latest revision as of 19:18, 21 October 2021

We're looking for a new space to move in once we've got some savings in the bank. We won't be in such a rush to move as last time.

The right space could allow us to run things such as a permanent licensed bar, which could be a boon to the community and also increase our revenue.

Self-referential thread of interest; New space?

Requirements

With a continued rate of growth we will hopefully see an increase in recurring revenue from the current level of £4,800/month to around £6,000/month.

Ideally we should be looking for somewhere which is less shiny than our current location, so we can make our own mark on the space without having to undo a lot of work when we leave. Think factories and warehouses more than offices.

We'll probably want to keep approximately the same split of areas as our current space, without reducing any of them in size.

High level requirements

  • At least 5000 sq ft (460 sq m) - our current place is 2600 sq ft.
  • In Zone 1 or 2. No further than 2 miles from our current location (because it could cause a disruptive change in our membership when we want it least).
  • B1 or B2 use class
  • Price less than £6000/month (£75,000/year) inc. service charge & VAT - i.e. less than £15.00/sq ft.
  • No more than 0.5 miles to a tube/overground station
  • Ground floor OR goods lift
  • Separate entrance. Landlord has to be comfortable with hundreds of people having access.
  • Noise allowed. We make a lot of noise, and a residential area isn't going to cut it.
  • Has some natural light

Possible requirements (wishlist)

We won't be able to satisfy all of these, but the more the better.

  • A building to ourselves, we'd rather not be renting a unit.
  • Roof access
  • somewhere secure for bikes
  • usable outside area; ideally large enough for firing trebuchet/rockets/pigs.
  • convenient parking for motorbikes, cars, etc

Non-functional requirements

  • Friendly landlord
  • Easy access
  • Fantastic views

Scoring

447-453 Hackney Road

Advanced planning

Moved to: Hackspace Move.

Frequently Asked Questions

Do we really need to expand?

It's a judgment call, but there are a few arguments for further expansion.

First of all it needs to be pointed out that every time we moved or expanded the space, our community grew along with it and quickly filled the available space. (We last expanded in January 2011 to double our space, and within a year already filled that space.)

There are a number of problems with our current space:

  • We can't hold workshops with more than 15 people.
  • We're running out of storage space (e.g. for member boxes), and can't set up any new infrastructure that requires a lot of space (such as more workbenches in the workshop.) We can't accommodate project work that requires a lot of space.
  • At peak times (evenings) the workshop frequently gets busy enough that people need to share workbenches. It gets harder to work with bulky materials without getting into someone's way.
  • We can't even promote the Hackspace in a big way; for the last year we've declined interview requests because we currently cannot accommodate a potential flood of new members.

There's an argument to make that more space would also address some of our social problems:

  • We're now at a community size where not everyone knows everyone else any more, and certain social mechanisms stop working; for example some people may feel that tools get abused, or workspace does not get cleaned up, and it's not clear who was the culprit. (See Broken.)
  • One way of coping with such a large community is to start segmenting it into subgroups, something we're already doing (biohackers, music hackspace, graphics hackspace, ...)
  • In a perfect world we would be able to give each larger subgroup their own space (for example their own room), and the ability to run it as they see fit (to set up their own rules for tool access, maintenance, etc); to re-introduce a sense of ownership.
  • Our current space in Cremer St does not accommodate such a subdivision. A larger space would help.

How will we finance a move?

  • We will publish a detailed moving budget once we're close to committing to a new space. (Todo: insert Russ' budget spreadsheet as an example.)
  • We have a bit of money in the bank for circumstances like this, and we expect that a new space will increase membership (this happened every time we moved/expanded)
  • We will under no circumstances raise the £5 minimum donation threshold for members.
  • Instead we will likely ask existing members to increase their monthly donation, e.g. "double it if you can." (Russ made a scatterplot of current donations, ordered by member ID.)
  • Additionally we may invite one-off donations from members and generous donors, seek a loan (external or from members), etc

Will a new location add to my travel time?

It is unlikely that we will ever find another space as close to a train station as Laboratory 24, with Hoxton station around the corner. It is possible that any new location will involve additional travel time by foot to get to the closest station. We will try our best...

We don't know how many people actually use the East London Line to come to the space, but it seems likely that most visitors use a variety of transport means to get to the space (e.g. multiple trains or bus lines.) Also note that East London (particularly the Hackney/Tower Hamlets area) generally has great bus connections to many parts of the city. In combination this means you may have to change your route, but total travel time may not change by much.

Synonyms

Showing 1 related property.

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