Monthly Meeting 28-01-16

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Monthly Meeting 28/01/16


  • Date: Thursday 28/01/16 20:00
  • Location: Classroom


Chair Russ Garrett
Deputy Chair [Name]
Minutes [Name]


(Please add items to discuss. If you item is removed by the Chair, please do not re-add it.)

  • Changing our methods of communication to help deal with toxicity and de-escalate situations developing online - Crypt
  • Ideas for events to help reboot the community and bring in new members to the core - Hamish
  • Subgroups structure - Dean
  • Infrastructure guidelines and consistency - Dean
  • Equipment - Needs, Management and Maintenance - Dean
  • Hack the Space day - ML Post (Marrold)
  • Expand members storage to meet demand - Mentar
  • Address the dust and lighting situation downstairs - Mentar
  • Biolab storage. We have a relatively high footfall and a lot of kit. It would be nice if we could store some of our consumable stuff outside the lab, e.g across the way, shelves next to PCB area. Sam
  • Where/when/why/if do we have to move the hackspace to a new location, and how members can help. keith

London hackspace meeting 28/1/15


1) Changing our methods of communication to help deal with toxicity and de-escalate situations developing online

Hopefully Discourse will reduce boundaries and improve including subgroups.

moving to discourse is still a while away, as a lot of work to do

looks positive though, as it would make moderation easier

Russ says he's now in favor, but it still needs to be tied into membership and be make fully ready for prime time before its moved over.

Aron: asks about moderation, Russ states this doesn't really get done because its hard to do.

Dean suggests that the moderation needs to be more impartial as there were many examples over recent months of it not being so

Russ states that threre is very little moderation besides initial posts.

Dean has stated that were examples and just today had Mark made threats, that he understood that the moderators were Russ Mark and Charles but wanted to be forward looking and have a proper structure for moderation in future that included the people element ,

Aron says this should be more open.

Martin suggests we should leave moderation until we actually move

Time Newsome says we're looking at this and people should test it on the new discourse

Mark states there is no way of moderating threads on google, and this will be done better on discourse.

Russ suggests we don't want to discuss technicalities right now, but we should concentrate on that after we move

2) Subgroups suggested by hamish

Refers to email which he sent to the list .. see message

Federate the space, and allow these groups to fail.

advantages are we can try a multitude of different way to adminster groups and see what works.

Russ: need to formalise what subgroups can and can't do. This is something we've tried to do, but failed, so we need to improve this.

We don't get a full view of whats happening unless your subscribed to all the list,and people miss things.

Hamish suggests that each group holds kick off meeting and people can get involved. This can reboot the community.

Radical federation of the hackspace suggested so that groups have autonomy. as long as they are open and report back to the main meeting.

At the moment groups are way too closed and don't engage with the community.

Eugene states that the metalworking group is closed, Dean disputes this

Russ states that discourse can help with this

Hamish wants tech to work with a social solution

Sci suggests this is parodied, but emopowering. Suggests a show + tell, possibly at the open evening.

Dean suggests that each group has an open regular meeting.

3) Infrastructure Dean says there are a different number of views on how we manage infrastructure, and rules are being inconsistantly applied. There are several items which have been bought in without consultation, where as other groups are more rigidly controlled. Questions of how we address these questions and how we all get on the same page.

Infrastructure rules are only enforced against select groups. Most others have special dispensation.

Dean says this brings a strong case for how subgroups work and how they manage the space. We shouldn't be militant about it, or let it slide, but some middle ground.

Dean says we need to work on how the subgroups will work. and how it all fits together, and build a model and asks for feedback

Russ states that there are only a few people who know what the rules are and they aren't well publicised. Rules were passed around, but no one knows what they are. ..

There are 2 different types of subgroup. Ones who maintain the core infrastructure, and other subgroups, such as the ammetur radio and biohackers that don't manage the infratructure, but use it and increase the diversity, but not essential to the hackspace. We don't have a plan for those right now.

Sci says that each group knows if the equipment is important to them. Sci is concerned about equiplment like the furnace, which could be dangerous if now properly maintained. Also other equipment, such as the TV which arrived today, which was discussed on the infrastructure list, but not on the main list.

Dean states that this is should have been discussed on the main list as an example of the standard expected by some and not complied with by others ,

Ariel states that this is what discourse would be very much better for this.

Russ states that discourse may not solve all of this. In instances such as the cabin or chairs, there will be an exception

Dean says that exceptions should be occasional and not the norm

Sci suggests the storage request system should be used for the aquisition of equipment.

Russ suggests that we move on, as we are low on time.

Sci suggests that storage request system should be used so that we use it for scheduling installs.

Ariel says we need a defined procedure which will get past a lot of issues.

Dean says that we need to look at subgroups so that unrelated people or groups people should not be able to dictated what happens with certain or other areas, and this is very difficult to deal with. Different subgroups should manage the there spaces so that this doesn't happen.

Currently this is assumed, but not offically stated

Russ says he wants to close this by saying its not officially set right now, and this needs to be better set out.

Tim says that the subgroups managing the space are managing groups and need to be different to the rest of the groups

Sam questions if the robotics group needs a special area, as it seems it blends into the other areas

Eugene says that its a CNC/Robotics area and was defined

Sam says that if the robotics area wants a TV they should ask on the list.

Eugene brings up the biohackers and liquid handing platform

Dean asks if the blacksmith area has been displaced

Eugene states its still there and hardly ever used.

Hamish wants truth an reconciliation, but Russ says its more important to get proper rules

Hamish suggests that a decision should only be valid if its on a single page, so it can be found very easily

Russ REALLY wants to move on

4) Equipment and maintanance

Dean says the needs of groups must be decided by the groups, but each area is communal. The metal work group is small, but manages an area that is used by a large portion of the community.

There has been a doctrine of how each equipment is bought in and maintained. Printers may be easy to use, but some equipment, such as a table saw could be very dangerous. There needs to be more thought about which tools can be used and how people are trained on the tools.

Russ suggests that signs should be made above each tool, showing how to get trained

Sci suggests Charles does a safety demo style video with lots of blood and gore.

Ariel asks which tools you need training for

Dean says that we need to confirm which tools need what training.

Dean brings up the maintainance of equipment and says its not appropriate for tools to be maintained by closed groups. Asks for service stats for each tool, such as the laser cutter, but not exclusively that. Asks for more stats on when the tool is down, how long it takes to repair and how long it takes to fix and talks about what this tells us and how it can help manage the toold people and perceptions.

Dean brings up the laser cutter, that only has 3 maintainers.. There are 2 people here who want to be trained to maintain the laser cutter. Dean doesn't personally have a need, but states there are problems with how it is run.

Dean states that there needs to be an understanding of the perception and running of the tool and stats will help with this. We shouldn't be asking people who are not appropriate to run the tool, but there are people who could be trained.

Russ states that the laser cutter is a complex machine and needs intuition to be a decent maintainer. The need to pattern match on pervious faults, such as today when it just needed to be turned off and on again. Russ is trying to document the process, but is still trying. Its not the same as maintaining other equipment because of dodgy chinese electronics. The knowledge can be difficlut to write down, but its just a matter of time.

Lian asks why there hasn't been any attempts to bring new people on. There have been situations where all the maintainers haven't been availbable and this situation should be fixed.

Russ states he is trying to improve this situation.

Dean says there needs to be more transparancy of the process carging etc.

Russ sums up that there shouldn't be too many maintainers because things can get confusing, there needs to be a balance. Not everyone who's technicly competent should be made a maintainer.

Sci says that technicly competent is not an exact definition.

Russ says he agrees that we need to have better way to get maintainers onboard.

Work is being done with just add sharks to increase the knowledge base, but they don't have a wiki or any online documentation.

Sci asks if we bought the machine because of after sales service.

Russ states that they work with suppliers to provide a better spec for laser cutters.

5) Hack the space day

Marrold isn't here Crypt: everyone come to hack the space day. Job done!!!

6) Expand member storage

Eugene asks for more member storage,

Russ says he can buy more shelves

Eugene states that a lot of boxes belong to former members, we will go through this on saturday.

Dean says project storage is also an issue. In the area between members and wood rack, we should put a single and double row specificly for project storage For a project with a storage request.

Russ agrees that this will be a good iidea.

Keith says that the members box should be for smaller items, we can replace this entirely with project storage.

Russ says there is a good argument to keep members storage, but we need to change how we expire them.

Paddy says that once the non members storage gets replaced, we should have enough space.

Mark says that if we move to a time limited system, it might be unpoliceable. The current storage system has a lot of expired requests that haven't been checked

Russ summerises by saying that the members box system saves us work by not worrying about small items.

Eugene suggests limiting the number of storage requests by member

Sci asks who has the right to change storage requests.

Russ replys by saying everyone has access to approve or remove requests.

7) Situation with dust

Eugene says that the general workshop area has a lot of dust. The tests have shown that there is a dangerous level of dust

Russ says that he is happy to spend money to get the lighting fixed

Dean says that its held up because people make too many suggestions nothing has got done.

Russ makes an official proclamation "Can we get some more goddam florecents"

Liam says that one person has to be responsible

Liam takes responsiblity for ordering and replacing them

Russ will authorize hackspace funds

Sci says too much bikeshedding. General agreement.

Dean brings up ACNodes, Liam asks we deal with it seperately

Lian says that we currently have 1 build thats slightly more expensive. We are now trying to maintain old boards and buy some new boards. Currently they need to approve the new boards and get more into the space.

Eugene says they just need to work together to get everything in working order. They are easy to put together, but just need to get people to work on it.

Lian says he has lots of documentation, but none of it is made public

Liam says they have changed the supplier and want to prove that the new build is qualified before going into full production.

Matthew says the big problem with the wood room is dust extraction, which is making the woodworking room unusable. He is happy to take care of dust extraction for £200

General approval of the suggestion.

Dean says that he has dealt with the woodwork shop with Will and Felix, and is now Andy, Phil, Mathew, with Chris as off the meeting and asks if anyone else want to be involved in at looking at the layout and tools available. A wood planer would be useful and there is a core group looking at driving it forward.

Eugene wants to communicate better with new members about how to use the space. Example of paint used in wood workshop making people sick.

Russ says that signage is the answer.

Phil says there is good work being done on the ACNode, and offers help with putting things together.

Liam says there isn't a need for that yet, but ACNode party when needed

8) Biolab Storage

Sam asks for more storage

Dean says that the biolab is a sardine can

Russ says that we should get the shelves that fell over back in working order and free up a bit of space there, to use that. He suggests sending an email to the list and we'll all agree not to object :)

9) Moving of the hackspace Kieth asks what the situation is with that

Russ says the leace ends in march 2018, so we can't find somewhere yet. There is a small possibility we might be able to renew the lease. They apear to be releting the upstairs at a higher price.

Dean asks what the options are

Russ says its still a long way off and may not be productive to look at it yet. We should be in a good situation financially, but we might be able to spawn another space, or moving further out.

Russ says we should concentrate on this space for 2 years.

Kieth asks if we could buy something

Russ says there is no free space, as it is all owned by property barons. We would have to buy a whole building, which isn't really a practicly possibilty. A small property with 3000 sqft is worth several million, and beyond our reach.

Russ would love for us to own property, but not financially viable.

Ariel suggests he could find out what the landlord wants to do

Russ says this could be useful.

Lian suggests we should get friendly with our neighbours to increase the chance of renewing the lease.

Russ says that we could be looking at double rent for next time

Dean asks that we could talk about finances at next meeting.

Russ agrees

Kieth says that he can look into buying, and asks if thats something we can look at

Russ says that it would require us to obtain a commercial mortgage, which is a complex issue.

Meeting ends.